This morning, Noam Cohen of the New York Times published Define Gender Gap? Look Up Wikipedia’s Contributor List, a terrific, characteristically-thoughtful piece about the gender gap on Wikipedia.
In his piece, Noam quotes me on why the gap matters, and talks with researcher Joseph Reagle about Wikipedia’s origins in the “hard-driving hacker crowd,” and how that contributed to an early male skew. He also cites examples of systemic bias in action on Wikipedia, contrasting light coverage of topics such as friendship bracelets, Sex and the City, Jimmy Choo and Mexican feminist authors against deeper coverage of topics such as toy soldiers, baseball cards, Grand Theft Auto IV and The Simpsons. He gathers opinions and context from Wikimedia Foundation board member and longtime Wikipedian Kat Walsh [1], iconic gender-and-technology researcher Jane Margolis, as well as Katie Orenstein, who runs the Op-Ed Project, an organization aimed at helping women achieve voice as public intellectuals.
That piece prompted a flurry of other coverage, and I also got lots of interesting e-mail. In the next week or so, I’m going to write more about it here. For now though, this is just a quick collection of some of the most interesting coverage.
Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry writes a short piece in The Business Insider called Wikipedia Is Hampered By Its Huge Gender Gap, arguing that Wikipedia’s gender gap is a problem “because people turn to Wikipedia as an objective resource, and it’s not so objective in many ways. Another problem is that the community of Wikipedia contributors is famously independent-minded and might rebel at affirmative action-like initiatives to bring in more female contributors.”
Mother Jones publishes a Kevin Drum piece called Wikipedia’s Gender Problem, in which he argues “I suspect the reason has less to do with women having trouble asserting their opinions and more to do with the prevalence of obsessive, Aspergers-ish behavior among men.” “I’ve long been convinced that this tendency toward obsession is one of the key differences between men and women. I don’t know what causes it. I don’t know if it helped primitive men kill more mastodons during the late Pleistocene. But it does seem to be real.”
Matt Warman at The Telegraph writes a piece called Why Wikipedia’s editors are mostly male, quoting Jimmy saying that although editing Wikipedia is most appealing to geeks, he doesn’t think it’s unwelcoming to new people. Jimmy says that a key piece of solving the problem will be increasing our efforts to make Wikipedia’s interface more user-friendly.
Raven Lovecraft at TG Daily writes a piece headlined 85% of Wikipedia entries are made by men, and points out that “in recent years there have been great strides in the female user base of video games, social networking accounts, and jobs in the technology field.” (I might actually question that last: it’s my understanding that women’s representation in technology firms is declining, not increasing.) Lovecraft describes Wikipedia’s gender gap as “almost off the charts.”
Discover magazine publishes a short piece called On Friendship Bracelets and Ninja Turtles: Wikipedia’s Gender Gap, which suggests that “it might also be healthy to acknowledge the danger and shortcomings in labeling articles as “male” or “female”–not every girl weaves friendship bracelets, and not every boy enjoys watching turtle fights,” while also arguing that “more women Wikepedia contributors would mean a more diverse website–one where formerly terse entries become more nuanced, and past untouched subjects get mentioned–creating, in short, a better and more informed Wikepedia.” There are some particularly interesting comments on that piece, many presumably from women working in science.
Anna North writes a piece on Jezebel called Why Wikipedia Needs More Ladies, that “it’s not just Wikipedia — social news sites like Digg, Reddit, and Slashdot remain majority male, with Slashdot clocking in at 82% dudes. Some of these spaces are actively hostile to women (we’re looking at you, Digg), but in Wikipedia’s case the problem is more complex than that. Adding to an entry requires a user not just to set herself up as an authority, but also to sign in and enter an online community that’s deeply focused on information and trivia — a kind of community where women encounter both internal (what does she know?) and external (what’s a girl doing spending time in a place like that?) stigma. Certain forms of geeking out are Cool for women now (liking comic books, for instance), but editing the Pat Barker entry on Wikipedia isn’t one of them.”
And Eli Rosenberg at The Atlantic, in a piece called Where Are All the Wiki-Women?, characterizes Wikipedia’s gender gap as “a little surprising, especially given that the option of contributing to Wikipedia’s vast cultural database is open to anyone with an idea and a keyboard, with little of the implicit male-dominated infrastructure of more traditional corporate or media organizations.” He also offers a great round-up of links to other stories.
Eyder Peralta writes on the NPR blog a piece called Facing Serious Gender Gap, Wikipedia Vows To Add More Women Contributors, observing that “something like Wikipedia, an encyclopedia that everyone is encouraged to contribute to, is supposed to have a democratizing effect; instead, it seems, it’s mirroring — and compounding — the issues we have in the real world.”
Helen A.S. Popkin writes on MSNBC.com a piece called Dude-centric Wikipedia needs more women. “What’s interesting here,” she writes, “is that an attempt to draw simple comparisons to show how Wikipedia, or any other male-centric reference guide, suffers from a lack of female influence, reveals how complicated and touchy this issue is. While female-centric topics of interest are important, it’s the female perspective on subjects of general interest that mean the most in the long run. And rather than having long, drawn out discussions about it, maybe it’s better to just get it done.”
[1] Edited to add: Kat elaborates on her comments to the Times in this blog post.
If you’ve seen other good coverage, please add it in the comments. If you’ve got ideas about the origins of our gender gap, or how to fix it, please share that too. I’ll be writing more on both those topics in the coming weeks.
hmm
Well, I hope that coverage somehow help that problem. But I’m afraid it’s more likely to stigmatise it and/or indirectly make it worse
Gah. I replied but WordPress ate my comment.
Darkoneko, I know what you’re saying, and it’s definitely possible that women might read the coverage and think (in the classic marketing phrase) that Wikipedia is seemingly ‘not for me,’ and go elsewhere.
But I think the net effect of the coverage is much more likely to be positive. We want to talk publicly about the gender gap, in order to make it clear to women that we want their contributions, and in order to encourage people who want to help fix the problem. I’ve gotten about two dozen great e-mails today from Wikipedians and from anthropologists, librarians and other potential high-value contributors who want to help. That’s encouraging :-)
Even tho I’m a natural pessimist (boo), I think it’s better to have that problem on light, like now, rather than hidden under the carpet :)
The reactions are indeed encouraging, I hope it continues that way
I think some of the comments on Jezebel’s post are particularly insightful. It looks like they have an actual community run for/by women there. There are responses from both editor and non-editors too.
I recommend “Love of Shopping” Is Not a Gene by Anne I. Dagg. Men have evolved to use linguistic forensic oratory as a way to show that their offspring will be competent. This more extroverted tendency may explain some of the behavior patterns.
I still recommend the specific solutions in http://talknicer.com/wm10ca.pdf but I should have emphasized Hans Rosling’s points more. If you do another paid editing project with Google for medical articles, I’d recommend bringing all the articles on birth control to featured status.
there’s nothing stopping anyone from posting anything to wikipedia. you don’t even have to sign up. you just hit ‘edit.’ i’m a girl. and all this stuff just makes me tired. we women have to take more responsibility for ourselves. we can’t expect extra help anymore. –i know it’s not the p.c. thing to say, but it’s true.
I beg to differ. I just blogged about this myself, but I gave up on Wikipedia after getting into an edit war with men who thought that my (female-oriented) addition to a WikiProject was not worth it, even after I backed it up with Wiki policy and showed other similar categories doing the same thing.
I’m tired of not having my opinions and expertise taken seriously by the cliques that get set up at a supposedly “free and open” encyclopedia.
Not entirely accurate… for the very first time, I recently tried to “bring my crumb” of info to Wikipedia’s table about an iconic actor’s ranch being located in my hometown (John Wayne’s “26 Bar Ranch” of registered Hereford cattle, was located in Eagar, AZ, in the 1960’s-70’s) and was jumped all over for making all the first-timer’s mistakes and promptly barred for life (no intermediate action, no one to politely guide me thru the maze — just a feeding frenzy to beat me into submission — like a fraternity hazing)… Simply because I showed the typical Western spirit and True Grit of defending my contribution .
I rejected the labels of “vandal” and didn’t have a clue (nor lifetime to research) what the other labels meant — their abbreviations/lingo looked like typos — and so I defended my actions. There were other links & info on the page that were much more dubious than the verified info I was sharing.
They say they have a climate of Good Faith, but they don’t walk the walk.
And so their Gender Gap just increased by 1.
PS – I was warned not to share my experience with the media after I jokingly commented Stephen Colbert would have a field day with it.
Just like predators/hazers who threaten their victim “not to tell anybody”… I guess I was just supposed to keep quiet and “take it like a man”!
I have to agree with you on this. However, it’s difficult to deny that the culture of wikipedia reduces the probability of survival of edits women are more inclined to make. For the same reasons, over 99% of men cannot successfully edit wikipedia, either.
Being an administrator of a large wiki, having watched the internal and public discussions for years, I’ve made a number of observations:
1) Men dominate because the very concept of wikipedia was based on a male-oriented world view. Combining that with the extreme male-domination of the internet when it was established and early adopters being a specific self-selected subset of males, the culture and rules are foreign to the average person.
2) The bar to entry is exceptionally-high. Editing is complex; doing it properly while meeting rules/standards is worse.
3) In person, wikipedians are not “normal”, but especially the few women/girls. If I were to venture a guess, most prominent editors of both genders suffer from some form of autism. Many I’d describe as stereotypical aspies obsessed with some subject. The remainder are mostly software developers…
I wouldn’t say this is a bad thing. I’d rather ask someone obsessed with subject X about subject X than someone that merely knows a little about subject X and wants to add some dubious trivia.
We’ve just created a mailing list for people who want to try to help fix the gender problem on Wikipedia. It’s open for everyone to join, regardless of your gender or whether you’re currently an editor. My hope is that a healthy mix of Wikipedians and non-Wikipedians will sign up and start sharing ideas and research and tactics.
If you’re reading this, maybe it’s for you :-) https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Well, I blogged about my own experience on when I gave up on Wikipedia:
http://ladiesmakingcomics.tumblr.com/post/3040886766/wikipedia-ponders-its-gender-skewed-contributions
I’m joining the mailing list, despite my oath to never join another one. LOL :) THANK YOU for actually looking and doing something about this issue. I’m quite sure this might have a domino effect, and help open door in other places as well.
What Alexa D said. Frankly, it’s usually easy to tell by writing style or topic who’s female – and the male editors will just kill anything you do outright. This has happened to me more than once. I just don’t have time to fight for small entries or corrections on the items that interest me with the editors. Like Alexa, I just gave up. You’ll never win. La Wiki is run by the male editors, for the male editors, and is already in danger of devolving into little else but lists of manga characters. Your comments policy asks us to be nice, Sue, so I hope you understand I say these things frankly, but not rudely. Because I appreciate what you do.
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The English Wikipedia currently has a tiny trial (20 articles, all medicine-related) described at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Invitation_to_edit
The question is whether adding a small additional note about the fact that you really can edit this article to the top of an article will increase the number of edits to the article, particularly non-vandalism edits by unregistered or newly registered people.
If it works—and we won’t know that for a couple of months—then it might be interesting to put a better designed version on articles that might attract more female readers. (If it doesn’t work, of course, then there’s no point, and we can try something else.)
Someone posted an entry about me on wikipedia to replace a ‘stub’ that was very short and included incorrect information. (I do not know who wrote the stub.) Sometime later I found that my page had been marked as unacceptable till revised. Why was that? Some said the entry was too favorable towards me. One said I had never done anything worth mentioning (other than walk out on Larry Summers, tell the press that he had said women were genetically inferior in STEM fields, and thereby set off the biggest media storm in academia in many years.) But that is not my real work, which is high level science (which can be seen on a PBS show about my work, for example.) I thought about pursuing this out of curiosity, since it made me wonder how wikipedia really works, but after reading the rules (not to say the bigoted and factually false comments) I decided, oh why bother. What I hadn’t realized till I read the NYTimes article was that these are the young bigots of the future pushing their ignorant views, not the old ones of my generation. Now it makes total sense. To further confirm, I went and looked at Mr. Summers’ page. It’s endless – given his greatness. My name wasn’t there (thank heavens – who needs to be called a hysteric again?), but remark it named the brilliant Harvard faculty who supported Summers’ view that women are genetically inferior. That was stunning since the National Academy of Sciences – which advises the US government and is the authority in these matters – reviewed all the research on the topic and said Summers was totally wrong – not a shred of credible evidence to support his hypothesis. And you wonder why women don’t contribute to wikipedia? Because it embodies the perpetuation of gender bias, and yes, they do not have time to fight it every single day every single time it comes up. So bravo to those of you who are taking this on. No one should take wikipedia seriously till 50% of the contributions are from women, and the rules do not read as if written by angry, obnoxious children. What a waste of a potentially great invention!!! Thanks to the NYTimes for explaining this mystery.
[…] The gender imbalance among Wikipedia contributors has been a simmering topic in our community for years, but a story from the New York Times yesterday is bringing a surge of new interest. “Define Gender Gap? Look Up Wikipedia’s Contributor List“, by Noam Cohen, brings wider attention to the stark statistic from a 2008 survey of Wikipedia users: Fewer than 15% of Wikipedia contributors are women. Cohen covers perspectives on the gender gap from Wikimedia’s Executive Director Sue Gardner, trustee Kat Walsh, and Wikipedia scholar Joseph Reagle, as well as leading thinkers on gender gaps in technology and the public sphere. As Gardner chronicles on her blog, the story prompted a flurry of additional coverage. […]
After reading your piece in the Times I came across the blog of “cyber anthropologist” Diana Harrelson. She just completed a study of the Fedora community, an open source project that seems very similar to Wikipedia. Here are some (decidedly gender-neutral) recommendations she makes based on her study of this community:
* Explicitly state the minimum required for people to be able to contribute
* Provide easily accessible step-by-step information on how to go through the technical steps required; include these even if they are optional.
* Provide easily accessible contact information for people who are willing and able to mentor new contributors.
* Reaffirm to the established contributors the benefit of new talent to the project and set up ways established contributors can easily make new comers feel welcome.
A simple, clear set of guidelines that welcomes all-comers might avoid the hot-button issue of gender altogether and help to attract other underrepresented groups, not just women.
I was unhappy when the Wikipedia editing community rejected several volunter mentoring efforts (e.g. Association of Editor’s Advocates or some such, Esperanza, etc.) back before I was banned for violating editing restrictions stemming from my complaining about birth defects from depleted uranium. It is true that many of those programs were being trolled, but I wish the community hadn’t given up so easily.
If chapters nurtured new administrators on a gender-equalized basis that would cause potentially disruptive disputes to likely have better outcomes for women.
But the root cause of the trouble here is that the gender inequality bias is linked, along with 22 other major quality of life measures, to income inequality. Why aren’t more women and men asking the big questions, like what needs to be done for a multilateral tax haven treaty? How many OECD nations other than the U.S. are against a multilateral tax haven treaty? Many if not most of the epidemiologists working of this recently-discovered causation are women, but why can’t I find such voies — male or female — coming from anywhere than the UK?
Sue, do you believe that more income equality would cause more gender equality?
Jenny, thank you: this is helpful. I’m going to pass along Diana’s info to Zack Exley in our community department :-)
If I can help in any way let me know!
Diana, hi! I would love if you would join our mailing list. It’s high traffic (35 messages a day on average) and messy, but we would love to have you there if you’ve got time.
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
“systemic bias in action” if women write short articles on feminist Mexican writers vs. men write long articles about Grand Theft Auto? I don’t know, but this bias is really not systemic to Wikipedia, but either genetic or (rather) behavioural and systemic to our Western society.
E. g., I have hardly ever met a real “collector” type woman, while I know dozens and dozens of males obsessed with a certain topic and systematically collect everything about it. And I guess this is what it might take to want to write an encyclopedia.
That still does not excuse their behavior to women who DO want to contribute.
[…] y a un problème et il vaut mieux en parler plutôt que ça reste caché sous le tapis (même si ça peut avoir un effet négatif sur le problème). Je pense moi aussi que c’est quelquechose d’important à […]
There’s an ongoing survey on the french Wikipedia (see our sitenotice). It will help having fresher data on that problem… the survey NYT mentions being 2.5 years old and all.
If you want to see an example of the “status quo” thinking, Slashdot just posted this story: http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/02/06/1725258/Wikipedia-Works-To-Close-Gender-Gap
[…] gap in Wikipedia editors. Sue Gardner, the Executive Director of the Wikimedia Foundation, has a great link roundup of posts relating to the […]
Inspired by your comments, I became an editor this week. I contributed to an entry that I have direct experience with, and in fact that concerns women in particular.
Almost immediately, a veteran male editor (politely) shot me down, reverting almost all my edits. My contributions would have been valuable to the layperson visiting this entry, and added a perspective that this male editor did not have. Left out are reliable, widely cited statistics, and ultimately, the entry reads as biased on the subject.
But this male editor wins, because I just don’t have the time to disappear down a rabbit hole of editing wars. It’s a shame. I just hope that women with more time to devote to it will step into my void.
Estelle, how posting URL with the diff where you think you were unjustly reverted? The squeaky wheel gets the grease, but if you are too abstract when complaining then you can’t expect people to know how to help. Please be specific.
Well said Estelle!!!!
want proof that more men
are unemployed than women?
Wikipedia
[…] contributors. Sue Gardner, the director of Wikimedia Foundation, has blogged eloquently about the media coverage as well as some of the reasons women give for the gender […]
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